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Don't do as I do, do as I say?

Tregi

Veteran (100+ posts)
#21
I suppose the problem with the Rainbows being able to achieve their potential is time based. Could the leaders look at extending the meeting, even just during the summer term (lighter nights, girls used to going to school) to gain a few hours, or offer days where it's just an extended meeting, or at a camp site with some more leaders to allow them to access more of the activities. I know that means more time given, but if leaders feel that strongly about offering it, then it may work.
 

MummySquirrel

Veteran (100+ posts)
#22
As a rainbow leader and being in the facebook group, there does seem to be a lot of negativity, but it is mostly
I suppose the problem with the Rainbows being able to achieve their potential is time based. Could the leaders look at extending the meeting, even just during the summer term (lighter nights, girls used to going to school) to gain a few hours, or offer days where it's just an extended meeting, or at a camp site with some more leaders to allow them to access more of the activities. I know that means more time given, but if leaders feel that strongly about offering it, then it may work.[/QUOTE
I do both Rainbows (2 units and Rainbow Advisor) as well as Guides. I am looking forward to introducing the programme to both sections. There is a lot of negativity on the Facebook groups which is putting people off before they've had chance to try. For many units however extending the meeting length is not an option because Brownies run straight after or as in our case our Community Hall is used by the Op and Dram Society immediately following our meeting. There maybe for some the possibility of a campsite although for some there maybe transport problems getting there. Some are convinced it is going to take far longer Admin wise but until you've given it a fair trial you can't tell. Some leaders are worried that girls won't gain the Theme Awards that asking them to do Interest Badges at home is giving them homework... they're not compulsory so it doesn't matter the Gold Award will be out of reach for most( but its not meant to be gained by the masses anyway) The Skill Builders are a different matter as previously Roundabouts have been participation badges so if a girl missed a week it didn't matter, she still got the badge. I am sure we can however make it work and I am pleased Rainbows now have a programme that ties in with the rest of their 'sisters' We're jumping straight in with Guides but with Rainbows introducing Uma's this term and the rest next term. I think if we are enthusiastic about the changes that will transfer to the girls. This leader can't wait for next week.!!!
 

kingfisherblue

Veteran (100+ posts)
#23
I suppose the problem with the Rainbows being able to achieve their potential is time based. Could the leaders look at extending the meeting, even just during the summer term (lighter nights, girls used to going to school) to gain a few hours, or offer days where it's just an extended meeting, or at a camp site with some more leaders to allow them to access more of the activities. I know that means more time given, but if leaders feel that strongly about offering it, then it may work.
I can't give more time to Rainbows - we can't meet later as this impacts on Brownies, and we just don't have the physical space in our meeting place. I can't do more evenings or weekends, as I have a family of my own. One of my sons is severely disabled and cannot be left alone, so every time I go to a meeting, I need someone to look after him. I can't put more pressure on my family to take him for more hours, even if I wanted to. He already has to come to the occasional meeting if my mum isn't well.

However, I am not going to stress out about getting enough hours in. If we do, then that's great, but if not, then it's something that I can't help. If any parent complains to me, I will simply point out that we do as much as we can as volunteers, but without more volunteers, we cannot fit more in. Then pass them a volunteering postcard from Trading....
 

Tregi

Veteran (100+ posts)
#24
If any parent complains to me, I will simply point out that we do as much as we can as volunteers, but without more volunteers, we cannot fit more in. Then pass them a volunteering postcard from Trading....
That is the thing - along with the time issues ( I know that meeting before would be too early, and lots of units have brownies straight afterwards) if there were more volunteers/rainbow groups as a whole, then girls could be in for 2 full years, and more adults could help keep track. It's the never ending problem that seems to have gone on for the lifetime of Guiding!!!

Would having Rainbow helpers from a Guide unit help when you are running the new programme - to work in smaller groups to keep the girls on track and allow them to complete what they need. I know the thing about the Roundabouts (not needing to attend every session) was only rainbows, and I don't know how leaders interpreted that - if a girl did 1 session out of 4 would you give them a badge? but normally you only get what you have earned - you wouldn't get a sports day sticker without competing in the race!
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#25
I've worked out the timings for my Brownie unit which have 1.5 hour meetings and my Rainbow unit which have 1 hour meetings, and the amount of time the prescribed things will take up for the Rainbows is overwhelming. That part has really not been through through as well is it could in light of meeting lengths and time in Rainbows.

I've said to the LiC for Rainbows that we should give it a valiant go, and document our problems over the term to feedback at the end. There are a few stage 2 Skills Builders that take an hour. How could we even utilise those in an hour meeting time? That means we either are forced to cheat and adapt, or just never use those SBs.

I hope the outcome at the end might be somthing like a more realistic adjustment of the total hours of UMAs required overall for Rainbows. Or updates to the Skills builders that make them a choose X out of a total of Y in each set so that the activities that just don't suit can be skipped, and more appropriate ones chosen.
 

Tregi

Veteran (100+ posts)
#26
There are a few stage 2 Skills Builders that take an hour. How could we even utilise those in an hour meeting time? That means we either are forced to cheat and adapt, or just never use those SBs.
I think it is definitely worth an email to HQ pointing this out - maybe asking the question of whether you are in such a minority with only meeting for 1 hour, and whether it is acceptable to not do a couple of the steps to allow you to fit it in to 45 mins, which is then practical. To be honest, I've rarely met a 5 year old who can work on the same thing for an hour!!!
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#27
I've worked out the timings for my Brownie unit which have 1.5 hour meetings and my Rainbow unit which have 1 hour meetings, and the amount of time the prescribed things will take up for the Rainbows is overwhelming. That part has really not been through through as well is it could in light of meeting lengths and time in Rainbows.

I've said to the LiC for Rainbows that we should give it a valiant go, and document our problems over the term to feedback at the end. There are a few stage 2 Skills Builders that take an hour. How could we even utilise those in an hour meeting time? That means we either are forced to cheat and adapt, or just never use those SBs.

I hope the outcome at the end might be somthing like a more realistic adjustment of the total hours of UMAs required overall for Rainbows. Or updates to the Skills builders that make them a choose X out of a total of Y in each set so that the activities that just don't suit can be skipped, and more appropriate ones chosen.
What I have found is that some of the activities are running shorter than billed - but of course, the girls still get full credit for them. We're now three weeks in, so far it's going well and activities are being clocked up regularly. I know people have fears, but do wait and see.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#28
I think it is definitely worth an email to HQ pointing this out - maybe asking the question of whether you are in such a minority with only meeting for 1 hour, and whether it is acceptable to not do a couple of the steps to allow you to fit it in to 45 mins, which is then practical. To be honest, I've rarely met a 5 year old who can work on the same thing for an hour!!!
They know, but many of these are up to an hour, and may well run shorter - and the girls get credited an hour anyway.
 

GirlFromMars

Veteran (100+ posts)
#29
I think they should have just set it as "do x number of UMAs" instead of "do x number of hours". It would make it easier for the girls themselves to track as it's hard to explain that although we took nearly 1 hr, they only get credited for 15 mins. (we did the strike match and made smores, but the activity card it was just strike the match only for 15 mins).
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#31
We did the hammering fruit UMA last term. I refused to waste a collection of apples by smashing nails into them, so used cork instead. And as we needed some adult supervision with the hammers, we got one group learning how to hammer nails safely, and the other groups doing other DIY linked activities, including creating images with tap tap art. So we filled our meeting with this by expanding it beyond the original scope. But none of that would count, time-wise, for the UMA.
 

GirlFromMars

Veteran (100+ posts)
#32
I also think the UMAs are a total money making scheme. If they were really just to help the leaders, they would be included with the magazines like previously.
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#33
I also think the UMAs are a total money making scheme. If they were really just to help the leaders, they would be included with the magazines like previously.
So on the basis that the profits from trading are fed back into Girlguiding where is the benefit of this ? Rewind to the old programme, leaders having to source the activities, find instructions and produce their own resources...who paid for all that ?
 

GirlFromMars

Veteran (100+ posts)
#34
So on the basis that the profits from trading are fed back into Girlguiding where is the benefit of this ? Rewind to the old programme, leaders having to source the activities, find instructions and produce their own resources...who paid for all that ?
I've never paid for any resources we found on the internet? And we already pay census which is increasing rapidly every year. Ours was £37 last year and I imagine it will break £40 this year. And yet we are now to buy "instructions" that previously we got from guiding magazine, or off pintrest or even in here or just off the top of our heads.
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#35
I also think the UMAs are a total money making scheme. If they were really just to help the leaders, they would be included with the magazines like previously.
I cynically feel this is the case - otherwise why not allow them to be downloaded? I want to see how much time the various SBs take, and what is included in them as part of my planning, but none of this can be seen unless you purchase them.

And at our training on Wednesday they were very specific about NOT photocopying because of copyright. That means only the leader who has the cards can browse through them for ideas and future planning, or they have to live at the guide hall and be even less available. That makes it very difficult to function as a team in terms of planning.
 

Chillax

Beginner (10+ posts)
#36
I cynically feel this is the case - otherwise why not allow them to be downloaded? I want to see how much time the various SBs take, and what is included in them as part of my planning, but none of this can be seen unless you purchase them.

And at our training on Wednesday they were very specific about NOT photocopying because of copyright. That means only the leader who has the cards can browse through them for ideas and future planning, or they have to live at the guide hall and be even less available. That makes it very difficult to function as a team in terms of planning.
Were they meaning about photocopying for between units? Because we've been told we're absolutely fine to copyright within the unit e.g. for spare leader copies, but not for sharing between units.
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#37
You can photocopy (or scan ) the cards for use within the unit ( it's covered in one of the online trainings) ..just not for sharing further afield. It is a perennial problem that if the UMA's were available for download we would be having the argument about the costs of printing and ink. You can buy a lot of UMA sets for the cost of an ink cartridge.
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#38
Were they meaning about photocopying for between units? Because we've been told we're absolutely fine to copyright within the unit e.g. for spare leader copies, but not for sharing between units.
The question was definitely about use within their own unit, and the answer from the trainers was unequivocally that nothing should be photocopied.
 

Pixielation

Brown Owl (x2)
#40
But we have already told that new UMA's will be introduced... next lot in the New Year and as we are supposed to do a variety and not just stick to one theme not having enough hours at present doesn't matter.
That's true, but to enable girls to achieve a theme award, I want to be able to offer them enough UMA hours for that theme within a reasonable time frame, which means I have to plan in the hours rather than just hope that they add up eventually. My current planning has a theme award being possible within a 3 term span.