Fed up about subs

[Anonymous]

I have three girls who have not yet paid ANY subs this term. We've had one outing so far and one of the parents paid for this - one didn't turn up (we didn't pay for her) and one came and basically argued with me till I said we would take the girl (but not the parent) on the outing.

We have another outing at the end of term which completely replaces a meeting and I made this plain when asking for bookings - none of the parents said this would be a problem and all asked for places - so I've paid now for everyone. As all three of these girls are new, I didn't know the circumstances, and it is not my place to say to adult parents "you know you have money problems so are you sure you can afford for this child to go?"

I have been moaning to my DC who has been less than helpful. She says that I shouldn't plan any more trips (well, there is the Division Thinking Day activity day, a District camp, and we have to have at least one evening out of our regular meeting place next term because the hall's not available, and it's also part of the programme to have some trips - though most girls have now done one). She also says I should put up subs and not plan any "expensive" activities.

Frankly I am not doing this! We had a grant for some craft stuff and EVERYTHING we do is from scratch - we didn't buy kits, we bought paper, pens, paints, glue, scissors that actually cut - we've had loads of donations of bits and pieces too. I have not given girls Promise Box/Badge books at their enrolment, just badges and I indulged on some sling bags (£2.45 per girl).

She says "oh, get them to pay weekly and it won't be a problem". I have asked all of these families to give me a bit each time and one says "yes, yes", one says "no it's OK a cheque is in the post" and the final one is quite happy to stand there arguing about how poor she is in front of all the other parents in front of the group.

I won't give the exact figures but we need 3 girls' subs for the term to pay for our rent. This would be fine if we had 24 but currently fewer than 10 girls have paid subs. I think these families feel that they are badly off so everyone else can subsidise them, I know that sounds horrible but I really don't know what to do! I have talked to each of them and they just say "sorry, no money" or else "yes it's on its way". I also ring them during the week to try and come to some arrangement and promises are made but no money is forthcoming - not even an installment.

And of course some of these girls miss weeks, so if I started charging by the week they would then come to a meeting with a big bill for missed weeks and start again with "can't afford it".

[vickey]

I'm not sure if I'm going to be much help.
We are in a very deprived area so charge weekly subs which really does help. I never have problems with payments. We do have a policy in place that if they miss three weeks without notification they are off books and the same goes for subs.
I used to send out monthly reminders to everyone with all outstanding payments but now I write this on their termly newsletter (not actually in it for everyone to see) along with any trips they have paid to go too / put their names down for as we often have no shows

does the one who 'can't afford' have uniform? If not this may be your next battle

[Anonymous]

On the uniform I am offering some second hand stuff I have got, they do have to pay but far less than in the shop, if they just get one top I will drop the issue, if they get nothing I've got some old style huge t-shirts I'll give them to wear for the meeting (same with any that forget). As these girls are new uniform isn't such a huge issue yet, though when I asked around about old uniform DC said "oh, I don't bother".

If they come to a meeting without the subs they owe, vickey, would you send them away? I am almost at that point TBH.

[Cazbly]

I think you need to put in writing to the parents why subs are charged and what they get for it.
Put insurance right at the top and point out that if no payments are forthcoming, they are not insured and cannot remain at meetings.
Suggest that you will allow a weekly payment plan for the girls and explain unless payments commence, they will have to leave the unit. Therefore at the next meeting you expect subs to cover that week of £xxx + £1pw off the arrears and that will have to maintained on a weekly basis until the arrears are cleared. Put a response slip for them to sign to indicate their agreement so you have something to keep on file.
I know this is tough on the girls, but I do not feel you have any option.
Regarding the uniform issues, I think you are doing the best you can in difficult circumstances; keep plugging at it but if you can get some payments towards subs and no uniform, just keep going with the big old ones at meetings.

[Anonymous]

Thank you - that is a good idea - I am a bit at DC telling me not to bother with uniform as she's not really backing up the Guiders who do insist. I am not going to go as far as another local Guider who has all kinds of points for uniform but I do feel enrolled girls should be wearing something.

DC also suggests, which I will be following up on, that if I don't get the payment for the final outing soon I should offer places to other families.

I am a bit reluctant to push "pay your subs now" with all the families, there are a couple for example who I know are struggling but have still paid in full. Should I send a letter just to those who have not paid? Or a more general one with information about next term?

[vickey]

On the uniform I am offering some second hand stuff I have got, they do have to pay but far less than in the shop, if they just get one top I will drop the issue, if they get nothing I've got some old style huge t-shirts I'll give them to wear for the meeting (same with any that forget). As these girls are new uniform isn't such a huge issue yet, though when I asked around about old uniform DC said "oh, I don't bother".

If they come to a meeting without the subs they owe, vickey, would you send them away? I am almost at that point TBH.

If they havn't paid for three weeks I would send a letter through the post saying if outstanding money isn't being paid at the next meeting they are not to return. I know it's cruel but since this mum is saying in front of everyone she isnt paying then whats to stop others not paying.

I always find it interesting how the genuine hard up cases don't complain and pay or make sure they catch up with payment. (I tend to find if someone is really hard up another parent will have a quiet word)

[jop]

If subs are a problem for these parents there is often help avaliable from divisions. Maybe try to write to the parents involved explaining how difficult it is budgeting for meetings and how subs pay the hall rent etc and do they want you to see i you can get some funding to help their daughters stay in guiding? and that you understand how difficult things can be

[Cazbly]

Thank you - that is a good idea - I am a bit at DC telling me not to bother with uniform as she's not really backing up the Guiders who do insist. I am not going to go as far as another local Guider who has all kinds of points for uniform but I do feel enrolled girls should be wearing something.

DC also suggests, which I will be following up on, that if I don't get the payment for the final outing soon I should offer places to other families.

I am a bit reluctant to push "pay your subs now" with all the families, there are a couple for example who I know are struggling but have still paid in full. Should I send a letter just to those who have not paid? Or a more general one with information about next term?

I think the hard letter just to those that have not paid.

[batty bird]

the hard line is the way togo .
put your foot down ! don't offer them anymore trips .
i have a VERY good UH ( i wish i could put a sign around her neck 'Pay me or i will bite you ' !!) if they don't pay she will hassle them they usually crumble !

[laughingowl]

We have just resolved a similar problem with one of our girls - it turns out mum really did think it had been paid until dad sent the money with the girl. They had split up and he said he would pay for the subs.

I think the hard line is the best. It is not as though it is second or third week back. I would suggest that they need make arrangements to pay at the next meeting or you will be unable to take the girls. Maybe put that if they don't pay you will have to increase subs to all parents next term and add what they still owe onto the total! MAybe that will shock them if you don't want to say to them that the girls can't come anymore!