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Brownies Yellow Neck Tie Dimensions

jo10

Beginner (10+ posts)
#1
Hi! I was wondering if anyone can provide the dimensions which made up the yellow triangle neck tie which was made into the yellow neck tie Brownies wore in about the fifties/sixties era before the crossed tie came in. I would like to know so that the right size can be used for learning about making the tie up for the uniform from that era. Thanks for any information.
 
#2
They were neckers which turned into ties so modern neckers will do the job, same size give or take a centimetre. Don't forget tying it in a reef knot, not easy at the back of the neck. Makes me feel old remembering my Brownie and Guide uniforms from then, especially when you call it 'that era' :)
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#3
If you want to teach tie tying, then you will actually want them larger than the originals were - changes in children's growth mean that the size used then simply doesn't fit modern children without adjustment. So it would be easier to try out using current Guide neckerchiefs until you find a size that works for most children, then go with that.
 

Taz

Veteran (100+ posts)
#4
I agree with Fenris. Having last tried this activity with the girls a couple of years ago, we found modern neckers too small to tie into a tie successfully - the girls had trouble with the knots because there just wasn't enough fabric to play with, and the outcome only fitted around their necks with difficulty. We're doing it again soon, so I've bought some poly cotton for this purpose, and intend to cut the two equal sides to 80cm (before hemming).
 
#5
It depends on where you tie the knot how much there is left to tie the knot with behind the neck. It did when we wore them, if you did the knot too high up you didn't have enough to do the reef knot so you had to make sure you had it in the right place. A lot of modern photos on the dummies etc show the ties being a lot longer and wider than we wore them. I don't actually think the size of the necker has changed, just people not knowing where to tie the main knot.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#6
It depends on where you tie the knot how much there is left to tie the knot with behind the neck. It did when we wore them, if you did the knot too high up you didn't have enough to do the reef knot so you had to make sure you had it in the right place. A lot of modern photos on the dummies etc show the ties being a lot longer and wider than we wore them. I don't actually think the size of the necker has changed, just people not knowing where to tie the main knot.
Possibly, although I have found that even where the tying is being done by those who wore the originals back in the day, they cannot both have the Brownie tie finish three fingers from the belt, and also tie in a reef round the neck, unless pieces of cotton tape are added onto two corners of the tie to lengthen it.
 
#7
I've just a try with one of our neckers, it seems fine. There never was a huge amount left to tie as it would have bulged out so it always was a small knot. Woe betide if you had 'ears' coming down under your collar. I don't remember that we measured our ties like that, they were always much shorter than that, finished in line with the pockets.
 

jo10

Beginner (10+ posts)
#8
Thanks for the info. I saw an oldish tie recently but it wasn't from the period even though it looked the part. It had a 90cm top edge and I wondered if it was big enough to do the job. I wondered about the length to get the end result on photos I'd seen. Looks like it never was easy! Shows how easy we can be misled with reconstructions. I think I'll get a tie. Give it a try myself. If that works then great. If I struggle I'll cut a bigger one for practising with.
 
#9
Some of the modern recreation photos I've been looking at have enormous ties, very wide and very long. This is one that looked like ours.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#11
I've just a try with one of our neckers, it seems fine. There never was a huge amount left to tie as it would have bulged out so it always was a small knot. Woe betide if you had 'ears' coming down under your collar. I don't remember that we measured our ties like that, they were always much shorter than that, finished in line with the pockets.
They were meant to be three fingers from the belt according to the textbook, hence the difficulty nowadays in achieving close to that with original ties. I guess your Brown Owl turned a blind eye to the short length if they were otherwise neat!
 

Tawnyowl51

Veteran (100+ posts)
#12
Found a pic of me on my enrollment night, the little one! 2017-08-04 15.33.42.jpg 20170419_152705.jpg
And one from the forties of my mum,far right, even then, lengths varied enormously. We have used triangular bandges to do this activity, after practising slings
 

jo10

Beginner (10+ posts)
#13
Thanks for sharing the pics. The one including you is the first colour pic with that tie and uniform on I've seen. I had a yellow cross style one when I was a Brownie hence my lack of knowledge on the triangle ties.
 

elenopa

Brownie Guider
#14
I've just had a look at my Dad's school Scout neckerchief, which I have knotted and used as a tie when I dress up as a 40's Guider. It is actually a square when not folded and is at least a meter across the diagonal from point to point.

Don't know if this was the standard size for all neckers for Scouts and Guides back then (1940's)
 

Attachments

#15
They were meant to be three fingers from the belt according to the textbook, hence the difficulty nowadays in achieving close to that with original ties. I guess your Brown Owl turned a blind eye to the short length if they were otherwise neat!

Well it was two Brown Owls at two ends of the country lol, I started Brownies in London, then went to Brownies and Guides in Aberdeen. In London I wore a beret in Brownies in Aberdeen a woolly hat probably for obvious reasons.
 

jo10

Beginner (10+ posts)
#16
I just bought a second hand yellow brownie necker. It's 90cm across it says. I'll see how that works out when it arrives!