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Changes to TSS

floss

Veteran (100+ posts)
GuiderPlus
#21
I have had 'Granger' units - Guides 14-18 who wanted to stay Guides, couldn't go to Rangers. So we did lots of unofficial challenge badges, lots of cooking etc. Basically it was a Ranger unit, but some of the Guides were finishing off their BP, so had to stay Guides anyway. Now I'm in a different area, and there is a Ranger unit, but none of our Guides want to go to it. And the reason you get Guides of 16 is because theyre waiting to get a BP adventure, and cant go to TSS before that.
 
#23
I'm a senior section leader and I have 3 girls under 18 and 7 over 18, the oldest being 25! They received emails about the changes, I have genuinely received NOTHING other than what was in guiding magazine. So my girls are all furious that they are basically being forgotten about and that their own leader doesn't know anything
Not all of them have other roles, 1 is a Brownie leader and another a trainee guide leader the rest are all working on their Queens Guide.
I understand and welcome the age change, I've also got 3 guides moving up so could potentially save my tss unit. But what about over 18s?
I do hope they create a section similar to Scouting Network which my sister was a part of and loved.
Feel very let down by the lack of communication between units and HQ.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#24
I'm a senior section leader and I have 3 girls under 18 and 7 over 18, the oldest being 25! They received emails about the changes, I have genuinely received NOTHING other than what was in guiding magazine. So my girls are all furious that they are basically being forgotten about and that their own leader doesn't know anything
Not all of them have other roles, 1 is a Brownie leader and another a trainee guide leader the rest are all working on their Queens Guide.
I understand and welcome the age change, I've also got 3 guides moving up so could potentially save my tss unit. But what about over 18s?
I do hope they create a section similar to Scouting Network which my sister was a part of and loved.
Feel very let down by the lack of communication between units and HQ.
Trefoil Guild could fill the Network-type purpose - it's open to all from 18 upwards, and people can either join an existing Guild or start a new one.
 

badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#25
There now seems to be a change petition going around.

One comment I saw somewhere rings with me, a few years ago there was a survey sent out and one of the questions was what did you see as your main role in Guiding (with no option of giving equal weight). The quotes from this survey seem to be what is being used as evidence for seeing themselves mainly as leaders and not identifying with TSS. Therefore evidence was collected to suit a predetermined action of change.

I think at this stage it's clear that it is going to change to 14-18. But I think that there would be benefit in a direct survey asking about what should happen to 18-26, if there should be a section similar to Scout Network, something else, or "nothing". At the moment people are "panicking" because they are have having to try and interpret what exactly the proposed changes actually mean and how far open go negotiation they are!
 

Burghilly

Veteran (100+ posts)
#26
I've never had any involvement with the Senior Section but I can see it must be worrying to think that your Section is going to be taken away from you. However, this is a very a negative approach - 'We DON'T want....'

As a Guide leader I am always encouraging my girls to problem solve, to look for ways round and see if they can come up with anything. As badgemad4 mentions why not set up something similar to Scouts Network if there's enough people interested? I'm sure the powers that be would be much more receptive to suggestions and ideas than to a moan!

I can also see that a 14 - 18 age group makes more sense and would be a much more natural continuation from Guides, as girls of that age, most of whom would still be at school/college , would have far more in common with each other than with women who may well have been at work for 5 years!

I have to say, I look forward to the changes - especially for my older girls. I guess we just have to see how things pan out for the over 18's
 

blue_dreamer

Veteran (100+ posts)
#27
But are we going to have a 'hard' Senior Section or a 'soft' Senior Section???
*runs away and hides*

My personal feeling is that while the age split is welcomed, once again member's views have been misinterpreted. It's not that older seniors don't want to meet, it's that they feel they have less in common with 14 year olds. I find it unhelpful that HQ at the moment appear to be offering the usual volunteering roles for 18+ which so far haven't matched what we're after. Even though I am past Guiding Death I would love to still have regular weekly meetings - and don't say 'there's always Trefoil!'
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#28
But are we going to have a 'hard' Senior Section or a 'soft' Senior Section???
*runs away and hides*

My personal feeling is that while the age split is welcomed, once again member's views have been misinterpreted. It's not that older seniors don't want to meet, it's that they feel they have less in common with 14 year olds. I find it unhelpful that HQ at the moment appear to be offering the usual volunteering roles for 18+ which so far haven't matched what we're after. Even though I am past Guiding Death I would love to still have regular weekly meetings - and don't say 'there's always Trefoil!'
Could you elaborate on why not?
 

badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#29
I think some of the lack of appeal around TG is that if people wanted to attend a "young" guild it would need setting up and running. What's often cited as an appeal for TSS for older members is that they can just show up, or have support in running it. Some people have also mentioned "double census" but I'm not sure how it works out. It's also open to male membership meaning there isn't the same "just girls" environment.
 

Trinny

Veteran (100+ posts)
#30
The problem with TG is the same problem we've had with the SS! 14 and 26 year olds have very little in common. But I'd argue that 18 year olds and 80 year olds also don't have much in common!

The other thing I'm not convinced GGUK has thought about is new SS leader training. All the resources say, yes the SS programme should be 100% girl led, and this works really well if you have a group of mid twenties, but not so well if the average age is 14/15. A lot of the literature need some to be written and re-thought because I think this change reframes the section and how leaders interact with them. For example, I've been a SS leader while in the SS age group myself. That puts a very different spin on my leadership style than if I've got a good five to ten years between me and the girls, and I'm clearly The Leader and not a participant.
 

Gurglewurgle

Beginner (10+ posts)
#31
What about opening new trefoil guilds? That basically run exactly the same as TSS, but follow the TG programme? I don't think that would be out of the question? Might also help to encourage younger guiders (not necessarily under 25 but under 30) to get together and meet outside of unit events?
 

LFC_dragonfly

Veteran (100+ posts)
#33
I've read this thread with interest, as I'm a Ranger unit leader, and over the last 18 months - 2 years I've really been struggling with girls not wanting to leave Guides and come to Rangers, and also striking a balance between not being too much like Guides, but still finding activities the girls want to do. 14-18 year olds seem so much more immature (for want of a better word) than the girls in Rangers were 10-15 years ago, and don't seem even remotely capable of being self led, or bringing many ideas to the table of what they want to achieve through Guiding, or even what they want to do during meetings. Also, letting me know they are even going to be turning up is enough of a challenge, which, with having such a small unit (average of about 4 in recent times) is crucial to the success of most activities.

I'm now thinking about suggesting to the Guide leaders that we might look at going down the route of a joint unit, as their numbers have also reduced in the last couple of years, and their leadership team is almost as numerous as their girl numbers (3 long standing adult leaders, 2 young adult leaders who were former Guides/Rangers, and 4 young leaders, who are more like older Guides, but didn't want to join Rangers for whatever reason). However I'm not convinced that they will be that receptive to the idea.

Has anyone experienced anything similar, or for any of you that have joint Guide/TSS units, how does it work, and what are your girl numbers/leadership teams/patrol setups? Many thanks :)
 
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badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#34
Glad to see that the question of why the name rangers cannot be used anymore (for legal purposes) has now been answered with greater clarity, and that there are regular updates as to why and what things are happening.

I know that there cannot be a massive information dump, and somethings cannot be announced as they are on going BUT. The current system of announcement of something controversial (new names, splitting the section)-reaction/backlash (Facebook groups set up/e protests)- email from CHQ with rational information (name change is for legal reasons)- concerns die down, seems to be creating distrust, confusion and disillusion.

A recent example of how GG has handled communication better is the recent email from the CG, which under her main message had a clear FAQ. Its very clear and all that is missing is a time line. Information is pushed rather than pulled.

I have also personally picked up on that TSS leaders and members who are 17+ feel excluded from the process, for example the leaders on FB who have stated that they lied about their age to give feedback on a new name. Lots of the information for the process has had to be pulled, by going through links or searching. Those of us in the 18-25 age group at the moment haven't been asked much about what we would like to happen to us-or what our experiences are that could help with the changes. For example, those who currently are not a part of a TSS unit, how have they found support for the QGA and who from? Why are those who are only members of a TSS unit not also volunteering or holding another role? Even if there is a plan to do this in the future- why not just say "at a later date we will be sending out a survey"?
 

badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#35
Name change up date!

Apparently the legal team have decided that Rangers IS an option!
I think by the looks of the other name choices I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with it…
 

browniebeth

Brownie Leader
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#36
No contest, surely?!

Not sure how Comets, Ravens, or Ascenders really improve on the Kite, Skylarks debacle that kicked this mess off....

Pleased they've listened to what is wanted, hopefully this is a box-ticking exercise now.
 

badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#37
All the other choices sound like cheer groups (not that there's anything wrong with cheer- but it's not very timeless/Guidingish)!
 

Loopy

Veteran (100+ posts)
#38
Previously Girlguiding had not registered "Rangers" as a trade mark and there was a risk of infringing the Rangers Football Club's trade mark if the name was used, but I just looked on intellectual property office website and Girlguiding successfully registered the trade mark at the end of July, which means there is now no reason the name can't be used if that's what members want
 

partygirl

Veteran (100+ posts)
#39
Can someone explain how the Scout Network runs please? People are talking about it all the time with regards to this issue and it would be nice to be able to make the comparison.

I'm really glad that the name Rangers is back on the table.

With regards to the age groups, splitting the section to make 14-18 is a good idea I think but having nothing at all for over 18's will be a mistake. I understand why it's being considered as that may lead to more volunteers but I think it may well backfire and we will lose some young people completely.
 

Trinny

Veteran (100+ posts)
#40
With regards to the age groups, splitting the section to make 14-18 is a good idea I think but having nothing at all for over 18's will be a mistake. I understand why it's being considered as that may lead to more volunteers but I think it may well backfire and we will lose some young people completely.
There will be something for the 18+ group. It's not yet finalised, but there will be something. There have been workshops in CHQ to work it out but only fairly recently - I'm sure there will be results from that soon.