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Question? Could lose hall because of new promise

Discussion in 'Hall Management' started by Imogen, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Imogen

    Imogen Joint Activities Advisor

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    DivC said she'd inform HQ.

    We were speaking to the church when the consultation was happening and spoke to them after it was announced.

    Trouble we have is, is we have to make this terms payment by their next church council (or whatever it's called) meeting, which is end of October, have to find nearly £2k in total for all the units.
     
  2. Cazbly

    Cazbly Darth Vader (12,500+ posts)

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    Now that is not acceptable on their part. Just advise you will pay weekly instalments - to be collected at the meeting :)
     
  3. Quack

    Quack Veteran (100+ posts) Staff Member Moderator GuiderPlus

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    No, it isn't I do think that a sit down meeting between DC/Div C and the PCC is called for as it sounds like more of witch hunt rather than a renegotiation of rental fees. Whatever happened to tolerance and do unto my neighbour in their mind?
     
  4. Squirrel-Nutkin

    Squirrel-Nutkin The Wicked Witch of the West (15,000+ posts)

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    I'd consider getting girlguiding's PR bods involved too and perhaps be part of this meeting?

    and if possible, I'd be wanting to slip into the conversation a comment along the lines of "I think we really do need to reach an amicable agreement on this as I would hate for this to be picked up by the press and for them to run with a comment along the lines of 'to develop your beliefs isn't good enough for church' as that would get sensationalised and not look good for the community and all that guiding and the church stand for"
     
  5. rain2012

    rain2012 Beginner (10+ posts)

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    As an active Christian I am devastated to hear that Church's are doing this to units! It is against our core beliefs and does nothing to show God's love to the community.. all this will do is convince people that "Guiding was right to distance itself from Christianity" even though this isn't what has happened! We are directly challenged by the Bible to treat everyone equally, and show our care to all irrespective of faith, how else would people ever be drawn to faith if they were never included?!!?

    Sorry for the rant I just feel let down by some of the leading people of my own faith, we could have really shined through this by supporting Guiding and showing our active belief in tolerance, inclusivity and open doors.
     
  6. squirrrel

    squirrrel Veteran (100+ posts)

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    take a pic of all your sad rainbows,brownies and guides ,send them a pleading letter if that does not work go to the press
     
  7. tawny*

    tawny* Veteran (100+ posts)

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    This is horrible. Do you know what Christian diocese you are in?
     
  8. littlerainbow

    littlerainbow Rainbow Leader

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    Ach, no one's going to the press. But I like the "pleading Brownies" picture idea.
    Could up it with a petition signed by girls, parents and any passing random who's interested......
     
  9. Jane267

    Jane267 Regular (50+ posts)

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    Yes Church is about being welcoming, but it is also about Justice.

    Has anyone thought that the Church might be having a hard time here too. Most Church Halls are open to all kinds of community activities from weightwatchers to gardeners clubs, from toddler groups to pensioners lunches. All of those community groups will be paying rent to the church. So when Guiding as an organisation has gone out of it's way to publicly say that is is not a faith based organisation, that makes it equal and on a par to any other community organisation. Therefore a church might find it difficult to justify subsidising one community group by providing the Hall for free or even at reduced rent.

    You can't have your cake and eat it!

    Gets of soap box and takes cover!
     
  10. growlywench

    growlywench Veteran (100+ posts)

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    I can sympathise that the church might be having a hard time, and no, I don't see why we should get it free, but a reduced rate groups can afford means more income than £0 because the groups feel chased out and have to go elsewhere.
     
  11. Quack

    Quack Veteran (100+ posts) Staff Member Moderator GuiderPlus

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    I would quite agree that Guiding isn't treated any differently to any other community group not directly affiliated to the Church, but fundamentally our basis hasn't since this time last year to this. So if the financial concerns of the church mean non-affiliated users now are subject to halls fine, I think it is just the concept that the change in promise means we are 'less worthy' that jaws with most of us.
     
  12. ElfOwl

    ElfOwl Veteran (100+ posts)

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    In my district, all units meet in church halls. Some pay no rent, others (like us) pay a decent rental. Rumour has it that the scouting groups pay less than guiding groups. The Brownie unit pays less rent than the Guide unit. No idea how it works out. The guide unit has the church name in it's unit name, the Brownie unit does not. There does not appear to be any rhyme or reason.

    I believe it is the old story of communication is key.
     
  13. Cazbly

    Cazbly Darth Vader (12,500+ posts)

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    Which church is this that seeks "Justice"????

    Guiding has NOT changed in the least - anybody who has bothered to read our history properly knows that.

    Nobody would stand for a rewrite of the Bible, so why should people keep trying to rewrite guiding history???

    We are open to all and should have been for the last 100+ years. If our promise has proved a barrier to some, then it is good that we can change with the times and be welcoming to all. If Guides can do it then the Churches should be a lot more open and welcoming than they are - taking note of their Creed and the 10 Commandments.

    If kicking Guide units out in this petty fashion is "Christianity" - then it is time I re-examined my Christian beliefs because there is clearly a massive chasm between my beliefs and those of some others.

    *Also runs to take cover - I expect Junior Choir at Church will be pleased to have me along tonight - even if I believe in a new, different Guide promise as part of my Christianity. Thank the Lord my Church accept the change openly.*
     
  14. Fox

    Fox Brownie-induced madness

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    We get a charity rate from the church whose hall we rent, not free, and not the rate a commercial organisation pays. That seems fair to me.
     
  15. qwerky

    qwerky Veteran (100+ posts) GuiderPlus

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    I have to say that when it was first announced I discussed the new promise with my vicar. I like the new promise but was very nervous of how it would be received. I said to him that I was worried about how it would go down. He said anyone who thought that it was anti-Christian was misunderstanding both the promise and the faith.

    He also expressed a preference for "developing your beliefs" because "the constant in faith is that your understanding grows with time, prayer and learning".

    I was rather relieved, and his approach gave me a lot more confidence talking to some of my local "grumpys". I was able to quite happily (and with added confidence) respond to "have you seen this new god-less promise?" with "isn't it wonderful, that the promise is now encouraging everyone to fully engage in their own faith journey wherever they happen to be now".
     
  16. JJJJ1980

    JJJJ1980 Brownie Leader x 3

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    Charging rent is reasonable, it seems to be the timing and way this change has been presented that appears unreasonable to many of us. As ever it is almost impossible to know all sides of the argument without being directly involved. As others have said communication may be the key to working out a compromise at least in the short term to give you a chance to look at all the options. You need a certain amount of notice to raise the extra funds and October does not seem long enough.
    I suggest as a team of leaders, dc and anyone else that my be helpful you come up with a list of what is do-able in terms of finance and what is desirable. Compose a letter to the church outlining your concerns and the possible consequences and solutions you see. If you are able to include a nominal amount from each unit it may help show good faith. If anyone feels confident enough you could go along to the meeting with this information or send it before hand for consideration. Then await the response and go from there.
     
  17. TawnyJen

    TawnyJen Veteran (100+ posts)

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    Unrelated to the new promise, we met in a community hall for free for years before it was decided they needed to cover running costs about 18 months ago, after initially high figures, us and the other hall users we sat down with the hall management and had a good discussion about what was feasible and came to an agreement on a figure that would work for both hall management and the groups using the hall. I think the key to this is to go in calm and reasonable rather than aggrieved so that both parties can get their reasons across, by approaching it in this matter I'm sure you'll be able to find a middle ground that keeps you and the church happy.

    Yes it is a shame that it's happening because of the new promise and we can rant and rave about how it's no different than before for the Christian faith, but as others have said what they've seen in the media is probably all they know about it so it's up to us to calmly put the truth across. Also why should churches provide us with meeting places for free if they charge other groups, it may be that they have finally realised that we are open to all faiths and not just Christians, which can only be a good thing for wider public perceptions?

    On a side note, IN MY OPINION the more groups that meet away from churches the better, not because I have anything against the church, but because it does reinforce the image we are a Christian organisation and speaking from experience it does put non Christians off, as it would for any building linked to a certain faith.
     
  18. Imogen

    Imogen Joint Activities Advisor

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    Slight news, our guide leader spoke to some of the PCC today, and they're going to speak about it.

    We are looking at moving it in to the uni I work at as the SU have a room that they have to allow for community use a night a week.
     
  19. sari

    sari pre-warranted GiC Staff Member Moderator GuiderPlus

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    Slightly OT, but our rent ( in a school has gone up to £25 an hour ...:(

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2
     
  20. littlerainbow

    littlerainbow Rainbow Leader

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    Oucheroo! What are you going to do - can you afford that?
     

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