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Do you pay for leaders to go on trips?

captainkiwi

Veteran (100+ posts)
#41
I'm taking my unit to see Wicked. The girls are paying their own travel costs (I am traveling anyway and it would be my normal weekly expense so I'm not taking that out of the unit funds). We are going ice skating and we are fundraising for those costs so all that want to ice skate will be covered - if they assisted at the fundraising event. We are then having dinner - McD's - after the event. I'm leaving it up to my parent helpers if they want a McD's and they can purchase it themselves. Again girls are fundraising for that part of their trip. I should point out that I am not paying for my theatre ticket that's subsidised from Unit fees. The parents who are helping however are more than happy to pay for their tickets and I had to get extra tickets because so many mums wanted to help. I didn't need any parent helpers.

I spend £35 a week travelling on public transport to take my unit - 4 1/2 hour round trip. I claim no more than £50 - 100 of those costs back a year - it works out at over £1200 a guiding year. So, I think that for something like this trip it's reasonble that my ticket is subsidised by the unit - if it can afford it.
 

emmaluvseeyore

Brownie Leader and Ranger Assistant
#42
I spend £35 a week travelling on public transport to take my unit - 4 1/2 hour round trip. I claim no more than £50 - 100 of those costs back a year - it works out at over £1200 a guiding year. So, I think that for something like this trip it's reasonble that my ticket is subsidised by the unit - if it can afford it.
Thing is, it doesn't matter how much your unit "owes" you because you don't claim back, they should be covering the costs of your trip anyway. Would you be going to the theatre if you weren't taking the girls? Possibly but probably not. So you are going as a volunteer to give the girls a Guiding experience. Therefore your ticket and other costs should be covered from the funds paying for the trip, be that fundraising or money the parents pay. I absolutely love the theatre, particularly Wicked (seen it 8 times now). If I took a Guiding group, I would expect my ticket costs to be paid for because I am supervising the girls. There is a chance that I might not get to see any of the show because one of them gets ill or something, so it isn't the same as if I went to see it without supervising any children.

Most of this "problem" with charging leaders for things all stems from us being too worried about charging parents what it actually costs to be in Guiding and do the activities. We should all be claiming back all our costs, including printing, transport etc, but most of us don't (I don't claim for petrol). When I was at uni I used to claim for my transport because I was making a bus journey I wouldn't have needed to make otherwise. With petrol, I would have to drive past the Guide hall on my way home from work anyway, so it isn't really costing me anything. When offering trips, we should all be doing a costing which includes leaders costs, and then dividing that between the children attending to make a final cost per child. If you choose to take extra adults, then I don't know what to do about that, but something needs to be arranged in advance. That cost per child then needs to be covered either by charging the parents the full amount, or by using other funds (such as gift aid or fundraising). IMO, trips should only be paid for out of subs if they occur on normal meeting nights so all girls have the opportunity to attend. Anything that happens on a different night/on the weekend should be paid for separately (either by parents or gift aid/fundraising).

Sorry for the ramble!
 

captainkiwi

Veteran (100+ posts)
#43
I've already seen wicked twice this year and the day after the trip I'm flying to Australia so if I wasn't taking the girls I wouldn't be going on that day. I would never claim back my full travel costs! I make that choice every week to do that journey. It's my decision. Sure if I didn't there would be no one to take my very healthy guide unit. I usually claim back for trips back on a weekend when I've no need to be through. It's about balance. Camps - the girls costs take into consideration leaders costs. Would love to look at summer club fees and compare them to guide camp! Pretty sure it is quadruple the cost of guide camp!!
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#44
We should all be claiming back all our costs, including printing, transport etc, but most of us don't
This is quite right, we all should and most don't, but if we did then :
i) it would be clear what the true cost of running a unit was and the next person coming along wouldn't think "How did they do all that on so little..."
ii) If you don't want or need the expenses, you can donate them back to the unit and claim more gift aid ( assuming you meet to the tax obligations etc)

The travel expenses aspect is a judgement call and one the whole team need to consider. Most of us are fairly local units and won't bother, some may involve a bus ride not otherwise taken, but what if you move 20 miles away and choose to stay with your original unit ? There are choices and decisions to make but as trustees for the unit we are bound by what is right and best for the unit and all its members (that includes the leaders too)
 

moh8876

Beginner (10+ posts)
GuiderPlus
#45
Can I ask, as it's kind of related to the topic (I've always believed that leaders should not be out of pocket or expected to pay for taking the girls out) but I've just taken over a unit after a long time away from guiding & we're taking the brownies to a panto. Because I was starting a new unit I reserved x amount of tickets & then invited the rainbows along too, which was great. Now, between myself, my LiT, 2y/ls & 3 rainbow leaders we more than cover the ratios. However, before the rainbows had gotten back to me with numbers a couple of parents approached me & asked if they could come as volunteers as 'flossie may be a bit scared without me', which was fine, now, we never asked for money because we figured extra hands would be helpful, but in the past 2 weeks 2 more parents have approached me & asked if I would mind if they bought seats near us in case their daughters (wee newbies) were upset. I booked the tickets for them so they would get the group discount price & they were more than happy, but I now feel guilty that these parents have bought their own tickets (though I managed to get them seats with us) & are making their own way their together (there wasn't enough seats on the bus for them) & two other parents are going & we're absorbing the cost.
I think I would feel differently if I'd asked for parent helpers, but I kind of didn't get the chance as they approached me first, as realistically, like the latter two parents they're coming to make sure their own wee flossy will be ok (though they're lovely parents & I know they will help in any way they can if needed).
I hope that makes sense?
 

Sunny2nd

Guide and Ranger Leader
GuiderPlus
#46
Can I ask, as it's kind of related to the topic (I've always believed that leaders should not be out of pocket or expected to pay for taking the girls out) but I've just taken over a unit after a long time away from guiding & we're taking the brownies to a panto. Because I was starting a new unit I reserved x amount of tickets & then invited the rainbows along too, which was great. Now, between myself, my LiT, 2y/ls & 3 rainbow leaders we more than cover the ratios. However, before the rainbows had gotten back to me with numbers a couple of parents approached me & asked if they could come as volunteers as 'flossie may be a bit scared without me', which was fine, now, we never asked for money because we figured extra hands would be helpful, but in the past 2 weeks 2 more parents have approached me & asked if I would mind if they bought seats near us in case their daughters (wee newbies) were upset. I booked the tickets for them so they would get the group discount price & they were more than happy, but I now feel guilty that these parents have bought their own tickets (though I managed to get them seats with us) & are making their own way their together (there wasn't enough seats on the bus for them) & two other parents are going & we're absorbing the cost.
I think I would feel differently if I'd asked for parent helpers, but I kind of didn't get the chance as they approached me first, as realistically, like the latter two parents they're coming to make sure their own wee flossy will be ok (though they're lovely parents & I know they will help in any way they can if needed).
I hope that makes sense?
I think you will just have to put this one down to experience, but in the future work out how many adults you need and if any more ask to come then politely tell them that they will have to pay for their additional tickets as they extra to the ratios.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#47
I've already seen wicked twice this year and the day after the trip I'm flying to Australia so if I wasn't taking the girls I wouldn't be going on that day. I would never claim back my full travel costs! I make that choice every week to do that journey. It's my decision. Sure if I didn't there would be no one to take my very healthy guide unit. I usually claim back for trips back on a weekend when I've no need to be through. It's about balance. Camps - the girls costs take into consideration leaders costs. Would love to look at summer club fees and compare them to guide camp! Pretty sure it is quadruple the cost of guide camp!!
In that case the best option would be to charge the unit what you are due
If you then choose to make a donation back to the unit that would be your choice, and it would keep your books straight. (And depending on circa the donation could be Gift Aid able, so the unit would be better off anyway.

Where we have to be careful is that if future leaders aren't in a position to subsidise the parents, they may have the embarrassment of having to implement significant subs rises . . .
 

FPG

Veteran (100+ posts)
#48
To be honest, I think parents choosing to join a theatre trip is different. Whenever I've been to panto/theatre with brownies we've usually opened it up to allow parents (and siblings) to join us - and charged them 4 their tickets. So they would pay for x places on the trip. They're not coming as parent helpers, they're coming because they want to come and see the show with their daughter. Although we would tend to have the brownies seated together and the parents on periphery, depending on numbers and fussiness (for lack of better word, I haven't exactly slept much the last 24 hrs).

Asking for x number of parent helpers to make a trip possible is different, in which case their cost would be factored in.
 

Tishypops

Veteran (100+ posts)
#49
Leaders never pay for any trips we have done not do I ever plan to charge them in the future. We use unit funds to pay for leaders and when our funds are looking a little low we find raise to bring them back up. As leaders we give up so much if our time ( not that I begrudge doing it I love it) I don't feel it is right for them to have to pay to do it too. I also pay out for any additional training courses they may want to do (recently paid £80 for a weekend long training)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

chopperchick

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#50
The travel expenses aspect is a judgement call and one the whole team need to consider. Most of us are fairly local units and won't bother, some may involve a bus ride not otherwise taken, but what if you move 20 miles away and choose to stay with your original unit ? There are choices and decisions to make but as trustees for the unit we are bound by what is right and best for the unit and all its members (that includes the leaders too)
Agree that travel to / from the unit meeting place weekly is one that is a bit different, and probably needs to be assessed case by case. I'm loathe to quote any figures or distances, as that's just my opinion, so I'll use extremes .... but there's a difference between re-imbursing someone for the odd 25p bus-fare because we finished too late one night for you to catch the direct bus home so need to pay two different bus fares ...... and paying the mileage allowance for someone who chose to move 50 miles away, wants to carry on helping but is looking for a 100-mile round-trip to be reimbursed weekly.
Not saying either can't or shouldn't be done ..... but we've got a responsibility to spend the money wisely.

Similarly, separate transport to an event - may need to be considered case by case. On one hand, if you weren't required to travel with the group (to satisfy ratios etc), then potentially you're supernumary? Possibly not.
 
#51
Agree that travel to / from the unit meeting place weekly is one that is a bit different, and probably needs to be assessed case by case.
I agree - and I've personally done this in different ways at different units. I think it depends on lots of things, including how much you need that leader: if your unit will close otherwise, then travel expenses may be money well spent to keep the unit open.

When I was a student, I took over a unit that was otherwise going to close, and I had my bus fare both ways paid out of unit funds as it wasn't something I could really afford otherwise. And you can bet that the girls paid for us to go on trips and camps when we were a leadership team of 3 students!

At my previous unit, I used to claim the car mileage, and then donate it back, so we could then claim Gift Aid on it. My current unit I cycle, so I don't claim the mileage, as I can no longer do Gift Aid.