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Lets Talk..... residentials and camps

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#21
I think it raises issues that many of us either have never needed to consider or have dealt with in a fairly subtle manner.
What I would want to know though is how do approach the subject of a couples nocturnal activities being overheard ?
It happened once on a large camp, a Guider and her other half clearly enjoying each others company to the point it could be heard by others. I just think there is a time and place and this should be central to the discussions not simply the contraception issues.
 

entropy

Veteran (100+ posts)
GuiderPlus
#22
whenever I've been on camps we've tended to have a "no sex" rule (better worded) along with the other rules like "no drugs", but I can't say that rule would actually stop many 14 year olds! I mean I've broken a few camp rules in my time (I'm a bad person, I know). It is sort of similar to alcohol, in my view I see no issue with members over 18 drinking alcohol when others are, like in a situation of being at a camp with a bar or out at a meal or something. But in situations where you are camping in the middle of a field for a weekend, alcohol is probably unneccessary... I nearly got a bit annoyed at an older guider who was taking us as SS members away, she thought that all SS members should not be allowed any alcohol even if over 18, but the leaders taking them would be allowed! Needless to say, with the handful of us over 18's that didn't last long! I guess what I'm saying is, providing the law allows it, I don't necessarily think rules should be different for participants of a residential than for the leaders.
 

sari

pre-warranted GiC
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#23
I think it raises issues that many of us either have never needed to consider or have dealt with in a fairly subtle manner.
What I would want to know though is how do approach the subject of a couples nocturnal activities being overheard ?
It happened once on a large camp, a Guider and her other half clearly enjoying each others company to the point it could be heard by others. I just think there is a time and place and this should be central to the discussions not simply the contraception issues.
I personally wouldn't be *blush* getting on down......at a Camp or PH, never had the opportunity before ( I'm a Brownie guider.) but wouldn't be comfortable getting on down whilst on duty....I think I would have to shout loudly through the night " could you keep the noise down??" :) It is an issue I've never thought about before, and I'm glas woody's posted these up, and has given me the opportunity to think about it...
 

cerys80

Brownie Leader
#24
Well :speechless-022 ... I'm so glad I do Brownies and nothing older ... theres enough potential in there for that age group to last me for now !

Mind you as a parent of a Guide I'm really grateful someone has taken the trouble and that these guidelines exist .. not many organisations take the welfare/care of the girls as seriously as we do :)
 

sliceofrice

Veteran (100+ posts)
#25
What I would want to know though is how do approach the subject of a couples nocturnal activities being overheard ?
:/ Wow, how disrespectful of them! Erm, depending on my role I guess I'd either inform someone higher up or speak directly to them.

Well :speechless-022 ... I'm so glad I do Brownies and nothing older ... theres enough potential in there for that age group to last me for now !
Totally agree!
 

Tregi

Veteran (100+ posts)
#26
I've been on camps where I know girls have been off "exploring" with scouts.
If I had a set of girls who seemed to be sexually active and we were on a mixed camp, I would let them know that condoms were available, and that I would rather they used those than nothing!!
Its good to know that GGUK has actually thought about this stuff.
regards couples sleeping together, I don't share a tent with my husband, as if the girls needed me, they need to know that its just me they will find and not a bloke in his undies!!!! with same sex couple, I see no difference between 2 female/male friends sharing (which the guides expect) so I would say that they needed to be sensible and respectful whilst away, the same as at meeting places or on trips. nothing wrong with holding hands and a cuddle, and a little kiss, but not more than that when the girls are around.
if I have 2 girls in a relationship, I would put them in the same tent if it worked out that way, and would have a conversation with them to make sure they knew what was expected of them, same as a leader.

noisy nights??? "its past camp curfew, be quiet!!"
 

chopperchick

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#28
There are advantages to the little red ones sometimes :D

It will be a controversial subject for some - and I guess that's why CHQ decided there was a need for some guidance, which I think is right. For me, it's just a case of something else to think about before we go away and my list of things to think about will be different from last year's and from someone else's this year, just because of the situation & those involved. So, I might just think about it, and decide I need to do no more - or not. I liken the guidance to the risk assessment logic - you're not doing a risk assessment only because you think everyone will die or the world will end on PH - it's about taking reasonable, sensible precautions. So, the fact this guidance now exists doesn't suddenly mean guide / SS camps will be dens of iniquity - it's about offering advice or information to those who feel they need it if presented with these situations.
 

northeast quine

Veteran (100+ posts)
GuiderPlus
#29
Its fantastic we now have this guidance. I regularly take girls away on international camps so have had to have the sex talk with girls before we left and whilst we were away. Many of the camps we have been at have handed out condoms to the older girls I guess as a way of trying to ensure it happens safely.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#30
We also need to consider that with international trips, the age of consent that will apply is the local one - on some camps abroad, a tent has been set aside for couples to use with condoms etc supplied inside it, and the local age of consent was such that older Guides would have legally been able to use it (the UK Guiders leading the contingent weren't aware of this in advance). So guidance, and the chance for all Guiders to consider possible issues and appropriate solutions before the event, is valuable.
 

Wren

Mod
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#31
I just love the fact that this is the ONLY place I have heard about this guidance so far. CHQ really need to work on the way information is out there, especially when considering the Big Gig and Chief Guide farces recently.
 

woodyowl

Forum Mod, Guide GIC, Rainbow GIC,
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#32
Totally agree wren its not a new document, it took years to bring out and lots of consideration as well as the need to change some peoples thought pattern to allow it to be published, personally i believe its why its never been made as general knowledge as it should have been. Ive added section Lets Talk fact sheets to each section sub forum as well.
Its really important that we spread the word of these sheets, Ive spoken to Anglia advicers this weekend to get it rolled out to new leaders but we need to make sure thats happening country wide so please share with your fellow leaders
 

Tregi

Veteran (100+ posts)
#33
We also need to consider that with international trips, the age of consent that will apply is the local one - on some camps abroad, a tent has been set aside for couples to use with condoms etc supplied inside it, and the local age of consent was such that older Guides would have legally been able to use it (the UK Guiders leading the contingent weren't aware of this in advance). So guidance, and the chance for all Guiders to consider possible issues and appropriate solutions before the event, is valuable.
thats when you have to decided whether you follow local laws, or UK ones. On school trips they don't let you drink under 18 even if the local law is 16. Obviously that it up to the school, parents etc to decided which they follow, so you would have to decide what to do as a Leader, i.e. stay with 18 or let over 16's drink, for example.
 

Fox

Brownie-induced madness
#34
Even if you deal with Rainbows or Brownies and only have female leaders who are not in relationships with each other, you could be taking away Young Leaders who are in a relationship, or going to a joint event with Cubs and Brownies which includes male leaders or male YLs who might prove very attractive to your female leaders/YLs. Or indeed, if you went on a big Rainbow sleepover or Brownie holiday and your female leader/YL met a new woman... or already knew them in fact.

I can also see this being a particular problem if you have either parents of younger girls shocked that you'd talk to them about sex (with "younger" meaning anything up to 16), or in some cases where you have teenagers who are pretty confident in for example their own religious or spiritual beliefs and shocked you'd talk about this since "they wouldn't do anything like that'. I volunteered abroad after uni with a church-based organisation and one of the other volunteers was shocked that we had a serious talking to about HIV, and individual chats with the medical officer about past sexual history because as she said "I don't think Christians should be having sex before marriage". Well, maybe they shouldn't, but they do.

If you have individuals like that, at least they are older and can understand an argument like "we may have individual ideals that we want to live up to, but sometimes in the heat of the moment we don't - and it's better to be prepared and not end up with a tragedy".
 

ker-stee

SGP Enthusiast
GuiderPlus
#35
I just love the fact that this is the ONLY place I have heard about this guidance so far. CHQ really need to work on the way information is out there, especially when considering the Big Gig and Chief Guide farces recently.
These were produced last year, the branding is for the centenary... so techinically they could have been produced any time since September 2009
 

ssujh1

Veteran (100+ posts)
#39
I just love the fact that this is the ONLY place I have heard about this guidance so far. CHQ really need to work on the way information is out there, especially when considering the Big Gig and Chief Guide farces recently.
There was a full page article in December 2009 guiding magazine ... am sad and keep all my back copies!
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#40
Having been on several internationals, I can see a lot of value in the documents for leaders taking girls abroad. Maybe they need to be covered in the Gaining trainings....I don't know my publications enough to know if they or the topic is covered in the 'Going away with Guiding'.

I took SS to Sweden some years ago and was clearly so paranoid about the girls getting upto no good, our hosts couldn't understand why I was worried. They had mixed tents for groups and never had any issues.