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Men in guiding

jadeb212

Regular (50+ posts)
#61
My fiance is an Occasional Unit Helper. He doesn't help reguarly but comes and picks me up from Brownies every week and ends up doing the washing up, putting tables away etc. He is also comes and helps on trips, camps and sleepovers if he isn't working but doesn't stay the night (unless it is in tents when he will bring his own tent and sleep in that a bit away from the girls). I am off on the Centenary Camp in 2 days and he is already there helping set up and he will be helping take everything down after it... he is also doing security for the camp as well. He is a carpenter and is happy to make us things if we need them, for instance, he has made me things in the past for my Brownies and Rainbows to decorate and for the Centenary Camp he has made a gate for our Division and made the security sign as well as making our Division a washing line after the District Commissioner mentioned we didn't have one and she wasn't sure where 60 odd tea towels were going to hang to dry. He also ferries me round places, especially if I need to pick something up or drop things round houses.

The Brownies at the unit I am Assistant Guider at all love him and he gets on really well with all of them. They think is great having him around and get dissappointed if he isn't coming. The Guider is happy for him to do all this as he does odd jobs for us, eg hanging up decorations for our xmas party as he was the only person tall enough to reach, and makes things for us and just generally helps out where needed - which is often behind the scenes stuff.
 

BoroGrecian

Petty Officer, ASL and Unit Helper
#62
I think men in guiding have such a valuable role to play, just as women in Scouting or the Cadet Forces do. I do feel it's a shame that men cannot at least be Assistant Leaders, but that's how things are at the moment. Men contribute just as much in time and patience and experiance as women do.

My own partner is considering joining me in assisting with guiding as a helper (he was a scout as a child and both his sisters guides with one sister still being a guider) It's totally different to work for him, but he would bring so many skills from his career as an RN officer to that kind of post that I'm sure he would go down well with a group of girls, especially those who may be interested in engineering or sailing.

So I think the chaps in guiding are often a forgotten and unsung force at times.
 

Doodle

Beginner (10+ posts)
#63
I agree with BoroGrecian, men should receive equal status for equal contribtion. They should be encouraged to take part and help with all activities. Excluding men does not set a good example to our young members, how would we feel if we were neglected because of our sex? Equality works both ways and if someone has something to bring to Guiding should it matter what sex they are? It looks like most male helpers are brought along by their partners, rather than men looking to volunteer themselves.
My partner has helped me when i am struggling for leaders and he has paved the way for a number of dads in the parent rota. I made sure he was treated like all female leaders and not just lifting and carrying. It's hard to challenge casual sexism and gender roles, because people don't always notice its happening. Men are ostracised within child care and I don't think that is acceptable. Lets show how much we believe in gender equality
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#64
I agree with BoroGrecian, men should receive equal status for equal contribtion. They should be encouraged to take part and help with all activities. Excluding men does not set a good example to our young members, how would we feel if we were neglected because of our sex? Equality works both ways and if someone has something to bring to Guiding should it matter what sex they are? It looks like most male helpers are brought along by their partners, rather than men looking to volunteer themselves.
My partner has helped me when i am struggling for leaders and he has paved the way for a number of dads in the parent rota. I made sure he was treated like all female leaders and not just lifting and carrying. It's hard to challenge casual sexism and gender roles, because people don't always notice its happening. Men are ostracised within child care and I don't think that is acceptable. Lets show how much we believe in gender equality
And yet one of the main things girls appreciate about Guiding is that it is a girls-only space. They spend so much time in mixed situations, at school, at other hobbies, that the chance to be with just girls is a real relief. So often, in mixed groups, girls don't get the chance to demonstrate their leadership potential, and end up in the same old roles. It is also worth bearing in mind that if it were to become mixed, it would prevent girls from some religious backgrounds being able to join.
 

Doodle

Beginner (10+ posts)
#65
That is an interesting point. I just feel men should not be excluded from leadership and don't have to overshadow female roles. I know i am struggling for leaders and men do not feel welcome to volunteer.
i do believe the units should remain single sex, although I can't really explain this.
If we allow male helpers, why not give them equal role status?
 

IvyN

Veteran (100+ posts)
#66
Because then the question would be raised, why male leaders but no male guides? Would the Scouts just have allowed female Scouters but no female Scouts? I don't mind male helpers, but there should be a line, Guiding is ultimately (to me at least) for the Girls, by the girls, with the girls. Like Scouts used to be just for boys.
 

cotswoldblue

Veteran (100+ posts)
#67
Let's face it, a lot of us wouldn't have been able to give as much time to Guiding if our ohs weren't in the background to back up with the family. My husband moans every time I go to camp but still helps with collecting and loading stuff and lets me have his van to transport all the kit. My son-in-law is in to pioneering and is also a unit helper in my d's Brownies - we keep it in the family otherwise we'd never see each other!!!!
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#68
I think generally, men volunteering and helping in Guiding either as OH's or via their interests is great. We would lose so much if we didn't have their help, expertise and assistance. However I'm glad we do have the girl only space and there is a time and a place for it. There are occasions when girls need to know they have all the opportunities and abilities that we can offer.

When I was a Guide my Guiders family came to camp including her grown up sons as Ventures, it was great they did rope slides and things, but we never got near the fires, we went wooding but they chopped the wood. It seemed to close off something for us, that was their role.... I think that sort of experience illustrates why sometimes we need our own space. They were trying to help and we learnt so much but inadvertantly they denied the opportunity.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#69
When I was a Guide my Guiders family came to camp including her grown up sons as Ventures, it was great they did rope slides and things, but we never got near the fires, we went wooding but they chopped the wood. It seemed to close off something for us, that was their role.... I think that sort of experience illustrates why sometimes we need our own space. They were trying to help and we learnt so much but inadvertantly they denied the opportunity.
Were they teaching the Guides how to build the rope slides and things, so the girls could do these things for themselves next time? Did they teach axe handling step by step, and then get the Guides to help chop the wood? Or did it risk becoming a show-off, them doing the things they assumed the girls wouldn't be able to do? There are positive ways in which men can be helpful, such as in teaching and passing on skills, but if they don't share their skills/knowledge, then their presence can be negative.

In my area it's rare for men to attend residentials - usually all the work is done by an all-female team, including the pre and post camp fetching and carrying - and I find that the girls go from being surprised at women doing things like chopping wood, plumbing repairs etc, to wanting to learn how to do them, and relishing the independence the knowledge gives them.
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#70
Well, I guess looking back, I did learn to use an axe etc, but I can't say that's when I learnt. It comes down to whether the individuals involved are teachers or not. I don't mean professionally but in attitude. Some people will get on and do, others will say this is how...and that goes for Men and Women. I think the thing to remember is for us to make sure the opportunities are there for all.
 

Doodle

Beginner (10+ posts)
#71
I think its good to teach the girls they can do all activities, even if men are present. Otherwise, they won't feel confident if they are in mixed groups. Encouraging both genders to do all activities, rather than reinforcing the idea that roles are gender specific.
 

Loopy

Veteran (100+ posts)
#72
Would the Scouts just have allowed female Scouters but no female Scouts? I don't mind male helpers, but there should be a line, Guiding is ultimately (to me at least) for the Girls, by the girls, with the girls. Like Scouts used to be just for boys.
Yep - they always did before they allowed girls to join! I suspect that was largely because they struggled to find enough male leaders though!

Men can be incredibly helpful to Guiding as Unit Helpers, Occasional Helpers and just general support - I encourage Dads, Uncles, Grandads etc to volunteer for our parents' rota, some Dads do volunteer and they're great! That's not the same as admitting boys to Guiding though - far from it!
 
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jim

Moderator
GuiderPlus
#73
Because then the question would be raised, why male leaders but no male guides? Would the Scouts just have allowed female Scouters but no female Scouts? I don't mind male helpers, but there should be a line, Guiding is ultimately (to me at least) for the Girls, by the girls, with the girls. Like Scouts used to be just for boys.
please check out wagggs for czech republic germany greece and spain for starters they have males in guides
that is just a few of the countries that have males in guides so technicaly it cant be said to be girls only organisation just to put my wooden paddle into the equasion lol
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#74
please check out wagggs for czech republic germany greece and spain for starters they have males in guides
that is just a few of the countries that have males in guides so technicaly it cant be said to be girls only organisation just to put my wooden paddle into the equasion lol
But are those not countries where there is a joint Scout/Guide organisation(s) with membership of both WAGGGS and WOSM? WAGGGS doesn't debar joint organisations in those countries which have them, but nor does it promote it in those countries (the majority) which don't.
 

Hilary

Guide Guider and District Commissioner
GuiderPlus
#75
Is it correct that there were some "Boy Guides" at the Centenary Camp who were from organisations affiliated to WAGGGS?
 

jim

Moderator
GuiderPlus
#76
Just thought I would get my oar in action again I like to stir a good discussion/arguament then stand back and watch the fur fly
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#77
Is it correct that there were some "Boy Guides" at the Centenary Camp who were from organisations affiliated to WAGGGS?
Yes, there were. I think from Portugal but I could be wrong.

Men play a massive role in Guiding and we would be poorer without them. But I think we all appreciate that we have a massive advantage in being a female led organisation.
 

jim

Moderator
GuiderPlus
#79
I think there are about 6 or 7 in western hemisphers section of wagggs as well
argentina,brazil,honduras, mexico, paraguay,peru,uruguay
what makes you think I may be doing a night on wagggs with the guides
 

Doodle

Beginner (10+ posts)
#80
If we allow male helpers, then why can't we allow them to be members? It almost seems to imply men aren't as good. I just don't really understand that decision