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Music Licensing Rules

chopperchick

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#2
Recall hearing about it being forthcoming last year - and to be honest, switched off as I'm no longer involved with our hall management committee (or even guiding there!)
 

Alsino

Guide Guider
GuiderPlus
#4
Ooh thanks for posting this. It came up last year but wasn't clear what changes were going to be made.

I've sent it to our hall committee treasurer.
 

Izzy.J

Veteran (100+ posts)
#5
So what happens if you hire somewhere for an event, and they don't have the license? Can you get a 'one off' thing?
You can get one off licenses, yes. I find that the best thing to do is phone the PRS and PPL people and talk things through them, as there are so many different tariffs for everything. They are normally very helpful, especially as you have shown willing by contacting them.
 

Loopy

Veteran (100+ posts)
#6
I've looked into the new rules and I don't think the GGUK guidance is quite accurate. My understanding is this:

Guide groups that manage their own premises have always been required to have a PRS licence if they use music that is registered with the PRS (this will be most music except "traditional" songs or music that is no longer in copyright. The cost of this is 1% of the building's income.

From January 2012 Guide groups that manage their own premises will also be required to have a PPL licence if they use any recorded music (i.e. other than live performance). The cost of this is 1% of the building's income or £42 if the building's income is less than £10,000 a year.

Both fees will be collected together under one joint licence adminstered by the PRS, but the fee for the PPL licence is in addition to the PRS licence fee. This means that halls with an income over £10,000 will be paying twice as much.

If your unit/district manages its own building and already has a PRS licence then the PRS will contact you automatically when it is time to renew, so you don't need to do anything until you hear from them. If your unit/district manages its own building and does not have a PRS licence, then you need to think about whether music is used in the building (by Guides or anyone else) and whether you need to have a licence (you can give the PRS a call if you are not sure).

This only applies where you have your own premises. Community buildings are required to have the licence themselves if their community group hirers (like Guide units) use music, so units using those buildings will be covered by their licence. Again, if you are not sure whether it is your responsibility or the people whose hall you are using you can give the PRS a call.

This is my interpretation of the rules (having spent considerable time on the phone to the PRS). I think I'll email GGUK as I don't think this is clear from their guidance.

HTH
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#7
From January 2012 Guide groups that manage their own premises will also be required to have a PPL licence if they use any recorded music (i.e. other than live performance). The cost of this is 1% of the building's income or £42 if the building's income is less than £10,000 a year.
This is interesting, I spent a good while at our HQ meeting last week discussing this and was told in no uncertain terms that the fee was 1% of our income for both the PPL and the PRS. I knew I'd seen £42 somewhere but the Secretary had 'long involved discussions' with someone and was told 1% each.

I think I need to do some more digging.

The link I found stated that's 1% if the income is less than £50,000 and a minimum of £42. However it didn't suggest 1% each so maybe we're in there..

http://prsformusic.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/PRSPPL/CB-2012-01 interim tariff.pdf
 
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Loopy

Veteran (100+ posts)
#8
Attached is a copy of a letter (which is on the PRS website), it's not entirely clear from this but it certainly sets out two separate fees (at point 6) and this is what the PRS confirmed to me.
 

Attachments

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#9
Yes, I've just read the info on the PRS and the PPL website and whilst both discuss 'a joint licence' they don't have joint fees so it would appear that it's 1% of both although the PPL is as you state £42 if below £10,000 income. MMMmmm just read the minutes of last weeks meeting and one has now been acquired for £113. Not cheap.
 

Loopy

Veteran (100+ posts)
#10
Yes, I've just read the info on the PRS and the PPL website and whilst both discuss 'a joint licence' they don't have joint fees so it would appear that it's 1% of both although the PPL is as you state £42 if below £10,000 income. MMMmmm just read the minutes of last weeks meeting and one has now been acquired for £113. Not cheap.
Yes, they make out its nice and easy because you can have a joint licence, but I think they mean it makes it nice and easy for them! Clearly it's less administration for them to send out one invoice, but the only difference for us is whether we write one cheque or two! It isn't cheap, I would expect that most Guide HQs collect only as much rent from each unit as is needed to cover the rent and maintenance of the building - meaning almost all the money collected will go straight out to the landlord (unless they own the building). Presumably now they will have to add some on to this to cover the licence, which will mean that the income will go up, meaning they have to add on a bit more again! I wonder whether money collected specifically to pay the PRS/PPL licence has to be included in HQ income?
 

Squirrel-Nutkin

The Wicked Witch of the West (15,000+ posts)
#12
yikes

no I didn't know that! so that would affect playing cds/music for musical bumps too! (think gguk ought to issue email to all leaders as this could affect loads) I'm just about to check with the lady that does our hall to check what the situation is?

Leaders should check that the premises they are using for guiding have a new PPL & PRS licence, from 1 January 2012 before undertaking any musical or performance activities.

Girlguiding UK continues to campaign against the introduction of this new licensing scheme as we are aware this will cause hire charges to rise. Members will be updated should any changes to this new scheme be announced.
also changes rules re dvds and what about sleepovers etc - guess we'd have to check those premises were covered too?

don't know that I like this new ruling! £42 pa is a lot to have to pay for a licence if the premises arn't covered, just to be able to play cds for musical bumps/musical chairs or to play christmas music at xmas party!
 
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chopperchick

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#13
yikes
so that would affect playing cds/music for musical bumps too! (think gguk ought to issue email to all leaders as this could affect loads) I'm just about to check with the lady that does our hall to check what the situation is?

don't know that I like this new ruling! £42 pa is a lot to have to pay for a licence if the premises arn't covered, just to be able to play cds for musical bumps/musical chairs or to play christmas music at xmas party!
Strictly speaking you probably do :) The PRS website is quite helpful, and details the scenarios when licences are and are not required. Not that I've got any affiliation to any musician or group, but I think the PRS website explains quite nicely why they do charge - and that's because it's how income for musicians etc is generated, and they are then free to support any charity AFTER they've been paid!

I guess it's all relative - but £42 isn't a massive amount, given that most units will either be meeting in District halls (in which case the £42 is shared between several units / across general fundraising) or in schools / church halls, where the proprietor is obliged to have one anyway. Having said that, if a unit owned it's own hall and no-one else used it, and decided the only time they played music was at the Christmas party, they could decide just not to have music - or find non-copyright music :)
 

Loopy

Veteran (100+ posts)
#14
Yes, CDs for musical bumps are covered and in fact we've always needed a PRS licence for this, it's just the PPL bit that's new.

I've just had a thought - if it's the hall's income that is used to calculate the fee, then a District that owns it's own building outright and has a separate account for its management would have very little income - presumably just the money paid by units for its upkeep (plus any occasions where it lets the hall to other users). Whereas a District that rents its own building from a landlord will collect rent from every unit in order to pay for the hall each month/year and so would have a considerably higher income, even though it doesn't get to keep any of it!
 

SuzieLou

Rainbow Leader
#16
We had a letter from the lady who runs our local hall on Tuesday. In that is says that if we want to play music we have to let her know and she will issue us with an invoice....but didn't say how much it would cost. I thought they were just being a bit OTT and didn't realise it was for real! Glad I came on here for a look around.
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#17
What the hall are charging you? That sounds a little off, I mean we've bitten the bullet and paid for the licence as a hall mgt committee and it will be one of our standard costs just like paying to get the dustbin emptied. I can't imagine sending a bill to each unit that puts rubbish in the bin...

Overall the cost will be absorbed and reflected in the amount of rent we charge overall.
 

Squirrel-Nutkin

The Wicked Witch of the West (15,000+ posts)
#18
slightly off topic I know but interestingly, in our local paper this week it warned firms/businesses that might be tempted to allow staff or customers to listen to olympics on radio or watch it on tv that they'd need to apply for a licence if they didn't already have one!!!!
 

SuzieLou

Rainbow Leader
#19
What the hall are charging you? That sounds a little off, I mean we've bitten the bullet and paid for the licence as a hall mgt committee and it will be one of our standard costs just like paying to get the dustbin emptied. I can't imagine sending a bill to each unit that puts rubbish in the bin...

Overall the cost will be absorbed and reflected in the amount of rent we charge overall.
Think I will need to speak to her and see how it works now I know a bit more about it.