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Scout and Guide Hall problem

Crazypencil

Beginner (10+ posts)
#1
I have asked for a key to be cut to get in to the Scout and Guide Hall. I rang the Group Scout Leader to ask. He said no problem, take my key and get one cut and reclaim expenses from the Guides. I said should I not claim from the Hall Committee. He said no because it was the Guides that needed access. I said that the guides needed to use the toilets but the hall committee paid for the upkeep.

My main issue with this is that as a brand new Guide unit there are no funds. The Scout unit has £12k and there is around £3k in the Hall fund.

Am I wrong? Should the guide unit pay for the key or should the hall committee. I'm seeing him at 4pm today so I can apologise and say the Guides will pay is that's what others think.
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#2
Oooh lots going on here...first of all you needed to speak to the chairman of the hall committee, they are responsible for the upkeep, maintenance and security of the hall and who has / hasn't got keys. If the GSL is the chairman of the hall committee then who pays for the key is a matter for the committee not him to decide. If it is truly a joint meeting place, there should be guiding representation on that committee who will have a say on the matter so they may also be a good contact to discuss it with.

Sweeping generialisation Alert - often with jointly run halls, Scouting members feel they are the senior partners and make the decisions as their financial structure gives them more security and often a louder voice. But there are rules and constitutions on how things should be run and an equally owned hall should have equal representation, sometimes with 'neutral' individuals, to manage the property. Guiding is not the junior partner to Scouting, no matter what is in the relevant accounts It is a decision to be taken by the hall committee not Scouting. ( jumps off soapbox)

So do some homework and find out who looks after the Guiding side and speak to them asap. Do not apologise and ask for the matter to be taken to committee if you are unhappy, if you roll over at the first query, you'll end up paying for all sorts that the HQ should cover.

Info from GG website - not so much for this query but general information..
Joint property
Property owned jointly with The Scout Association must be held by trustees, preferably The Guide Association Trust Corporation or The Scout Association Trust Corporation.

The Guide Association Trust Corporation holds joint property in accordance with its joint trust deed of 1975. This provides for the appointment of a Joint Committee and the basis of a constitution for that Joint Committee (the 1975 joint trust deed is available on request from the Legal Department at legal.department@girlguiding.org.uk).

Advice on the ownership of joint properties in Scotland should be obtained from the offices of Girlguiding Scotland.
 
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badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#3
Not much to add to what Quack has already put but I would also factor in knowing who the key would “belong” to, especially if this is not a jointly owned hall. Would it be on a permanent loan from the committee to the Guide unit or would it be owned by the Guide unit? I’d be inclined to argue if it belongs to the comitttee/hall then the hall should pay. If it’s decided that the Guide unit has to pay settle at the same time if locks are changed in the future who pays.
 

chopperchick

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#4
I think you also need to consider how many keys are required (or allowed to be in circulation). Some buildings have restricted keys, in that you can't just waltz into the key-cutting shop and ask for more.
I.e. if the "rules" are that each party gets 3 keys provided by the committee, but for ease you'd like a 4th, then I'd say that's your cost. Conversely, if each is supposed to have 3 but only 2 were handed over to you, then the cost for the 3rd is the hall committee's.
 

fenris

fenris
GuiderPlus
#6
The policy on issuing of keys should be decided by the hall committee. They should (ideally) have a list of how many keys exist, and who currently holds them. So 'just get another one cut' is not good policy, laying aside the question of who pays for the key.

More generally, any hall should have either a hall manager, and/or a hall management committee - and they should be making the relevant decisions about the hall - who it is let to, what the rules are about usage, whether/to whom storage space is allocated, the lot. Copying of keys is a minor expense unless they are specialist locks, and I don't see it as a major issue who pays for spare keys to be cut - but it would do no harm in more general terms to clarify what your rental agreement with the hall says, and whether it is current.
 

Crazypencil

Beginner (10+ posts)
#7
So the small piece of information I left out was the I am already a leader on the Scouting side too. So I went to see the Group Scout Leader who gave me his key to get copied. I said that I was going to have two keys cut, one for me and one for my assistant and that we would claim for the first key from the Hall committee. As a new Guide group every penny counts so £4.95 may seem like I am splitting hairs but the new group fund will soon run out if I am not careful with the money.

So I haven't put my receipt in yet. If you don't hear on here again assume I did get my money from the Hall committee. If I don't I'm sure i'll come back to moan!!! Haha!
 

Quack

Veteran (100+ posts)
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#8
Ah so you spoke to him as he was your contact not the perceived person in charge....my apologies if anyone took offence. One of my roles is as part of our hall committee and to say we get taken for granted and the dark side tend to believe they are the senior partners is an understatement.

Glad you are standing your ground and putting the unit first. Good Luck

Sent from my SGP712 using Tapatalk
 

Crazypencil

Beginner (10+ posts)
#9
Nope, you were right the first time @Quack there is a chair of the hall committee, who I should have gone to, but you are absolutely right the dark side act as the senior side which is how I ended up speaking to the GSL which in hindsight I shouldn't have. The fact they have way more members, money and attendance at Hall committee meetings (and more importantly hall committee fundraisers) does not help matters. But I think that having a foot in the dark side and being fairly good at standing my own group will help in this and future situations!