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TSS revamp

littlerainbow

Rainbow Leader
#1
Is this old news? The programme is changing to coincide with 2016 centenary and looking to change name and age range of the section.
Got this from Scottish Exec via our County News.
 

FPG

Veteran (100+ posts)
#3
The first part sounds vaguely familiar (but I might be confusing it with something else), but the last two parts are definitely news to me. Interesting...
 
#6
We were talking about it as North West Region. I think they're hoping to split TSS into too parts- 14-18, and then 18-25. It's been open for debate for a while now.
 

ChrisA

Veteran (100+ posts)
GuiderPlus
#7
We were talking about it as North West Region. I think they're hoping to split TSS into too parts- 14-18, and then 18-25. It's been open for debate for a while now.
Fine as long as it is a bit flexible. In Scouting some have to go from Explorers to Network at the beginning of their last year at school when they might, or might not, prefer to stay with their friends. Others can't move until they have finished school.
 

badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#8
I know several units that would fail to thrive, or the two sections would have to join up all the time. Too many Guides that move closer to their 16th birthday, because of BP could they make the most of two years in a section?
What about people at university/ other higher or further education. Could it be easier for those not interested in leadership to leave because they are too old for their home unit? What would happen to the awards, particularly QG? Would they simply become cross sectional?

I suppose one thing would be to simply have 14-18 as one section and then just have 18-30 (reason of 30, GOLD and its the cut off for "young Guider" age so it would make sense to bring it online). Is there really a demand for a separate section, although members may be at different times in their lives at 14 and 25- how much does this really impact on day to day guiding activites?
 

Sunny2nd

Guide and Ranger Leader
GuiderPlus
#9
At least it shows that GG are using the stats from GO to work out what is happening. I assume they now have more accurate figures on what age ranges are doing what and when the drop out happens. We just seem to loose nearly all of them when they go off to college and/or uni as their priorities change. I just hope that a small spark remains and that they consider coming back. Its good if the Unis can offer SSAGO but not all do.
 

KatieW

Guide Guider, Nottingham
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#10
I suppose one thing would be to simply have 14-18 as one section and then just have 18-30 (reason of 30, GOLD and its the cut off for "young Guider" age so it would make sense to bring it online). Is there really a demand for a separate section, although members may be at different times in their lives at 14 and 25- how much does this really impact on day to day guiding activites?
Australia have the Olave Program for 18-30 year olds, perhaps something similar would work here?
The syllabus is here: http://www.girlguides.org.au/get-involved/Olave-Program-18-30yrs/awards.html

Perhaps the QG could be for 14-18 year olds (may have to tweak the syllabus a bit to make it achievable by a younger age group) and introduce a higher award - or the other way round?!
 

browniebeth

Brownie Leader
Staff member
GuiderPlus
Moderator
#11
Australia have the Olave Program for 18-30 year olds, perhaps something similar would work here?
The syllabus is here: http://www.girlguides.org.au/get-involved/Olave-Program-18-30yrs/awards.html

Perhaps the QG could be for 14-18 year olds (may have to tweak the syllabus a bit to make it achievable by a younger age group) and introduce a higher award - or the other way round?!
To me, the obvious solution would be 14-18, Chief Guide's Challenge; 18-26[or 30], Queen's Guide. But then QG will be even further removed from the days when it was a Guide award!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the current set-up does not work. The typical 14 and 24 year old have very little in common, I would not class them as peers. In its current format does TG no favours either, because why would anyone 18-25 want to join TG when they have all the other options still open to them, hence why no matter how hard (or not) they try, they retain the stereotype of being for those who are post-guiding death, when actually, they are open to all 18+.

I hope that they make more of a noise about setting up more SSAGO units, because they don't get the publicity that other sections do, but they provide a vital bridging service.

14-18 (with the same principle of you have the minimum ages but flexible transfer to the next section at the upper end).
18-26, more options already available: SSAGO, TG, "just" being a leader/commissioner/mentor/advisor. There is so much for the 18-25s. Perhaps a new section for them, but I don't think they need one, because there is so much already out there, they just need to know about it!
 

ker-stee

SGP Enthusiast
GuiderPlus
#12
It doesn't work in Scouting, we lose so, so, so many at 18- many become leaders however in an 'activity/youth' capacity it's so hard to retain.

(Said in my Scout Network Leader capacity
 

emmaluvseeyore

Brownie Leader and Ranger Assistant
#13
I think splitting it will be really bad for retaining those members over 18 who don't want to be leaders. I know that many areas don't have any Rangers that are over 18, but I know there are some units that really thrive with a mixture of ages across the SS age group. I think those units will just end up being joint units for the 2 sections if possible.

I don't think having SS available for those up to 26 has any impact on TG at all. The reason why most TGs are mostly older ladies is because of their programme and how they are portrayed in the national guiding press. I am 25 and a member of my county's Out and About guild which was opened to attract those people in the county who wanted to join a more active guild. Many of the members attend other guilds too. I receive the Trefoil Guild magazine and it really is aimed at those older members. All the events for TG held at County, Regional and National level are held during the week which is useless for those who do work. I have suggested alternating them between weekday and weekend events, but nobody was keen on that!
 

ElfOwl

Veteran (100+ posts)
#14
14-18 return to the old Ranger section, yes that would work, but an 18-25 or older section? Cannot see that retaining anyone. We have a very large and active senior section, some of them are YL but more just enjoy being able to continue unit guiding.

I shall wait to see what is announced, not a lot of point in worrying and/or speculating.
 
#15
I think QG could still work over the two groups, since in Scouts there are several awards that transcend Explorers and Network. The main problem with the way TSS is now, is that a 25 year old isnt necessarily interested in the same things as a 14 year old, and then ends up becoming a de facto leader, which defeats the object of having a section for them to do activities themselves within.
 

womble

Veteran (100+ posts)
#16
In terms of the actual consultation, to my knowledge ( which may be outdated) the conversation will start happening just before and during the centenary (as it will give maximum contact with the age range in theory), with an aim to launch the 'new' senior section or whatever the changes may be after as soon as they can pull it all together.
 

Trinny

Veteran (100+ posts)
#17
We just seem to loose nearly all of them when they go off to college and/or uni as their priorities change. I just hope that a small spark remains and that they consider coming back. Its good if the Unis can offer SSAGO but not all do.
I think most students are under a lot of pressure - to socialise, to do well academically, to gain professional experience, to find a potential long term partner, to stay healthy; there's a lot to do in 3 years! And even after that, if you get a job (particularly in financial services) you are under a lot of pressure in terms of professional exams and work. So you might lose them as members for 10 years, but they may return with their own children! I would really like to see the statistics about what professions guiders do, that may give a clue about why some women return to guiding and some don't.
 

bubblesaus

Veteran (100+ posts)
#18
There could be so much to say here, but I'll try to limit myself :)

Aus does have Olave Program for 18-30yr olds. Olaves can also be unit leaders (assistants, resource leaders or whatever else), but don't have to be. Program is super flexible, those in peer units run it themselves, you you don't have to be in a peer unit to take part. We are currently in the process of a major review of the Olave Program, and more info on conclusions & potential changes should be released soon, so that will be interesting to keep an eye on.

In many ways 18-30 is a big age range too, yet our scout equivalents, Rovers get "booted" at 26 - which can feel rather soon to some of us! Quite possibly our numbers would struggle without the large age range.

Numbers for the 13-18yr olds have been struggling for some time, but for those that get to 17/18, retention into the Olave program can still a challenge. In our area there has also recently been the question about retention for those Olave aren't leaders after they turn 30, and the need to link better to Trefoil, or to have a "young trefoil" group for Olaves to link too.

Awards wise, out 14-18's do the Queens Guide, while the Olave Program peak achievement is the Olave Baden Powell Award. the OBP can feel a little undervalued at time, compared to the queens, which is regularly acknowledged as the highest award and more recognised in society etc.
 

blue_dreamer

Veteran (100+ posts)
#19
Welcome a revamp as long as the Octants stay. I love the octant idea. Rebuild around it. An age split would be great but something is still needed for the 26+
 

badgemad4

Veteran (100+ posts)
#20
An age split would be great but something is still needed for the 26+
Trefoil Guild is dubbed "Guiding for Adults" and has post 18, which is why there isn't a 26+ section. To some extent "main" guiding is a youth movement. That's not to say that adults cannot enjoy or take part in activites but the focus should also be for the young members. I think a part of the reason members drops as age progresses is because one can do activities and experiences on different platforms that aren't accessible when younger outside of guiding, the time isn't there or an interest has been developed to a more advanced level (eg climbing).